I Still Don't Like It

Just wondering how well those hooks hold when there is roof paper and a few layers of shingles on the roof. Informative “How not to video”.

Those hooks are designed to pull boards and turn trash.
The handles are fiberglass and, in the video, the students aren’t even using them, simply leaning their boots against them while another student holds the handle. This is a line of duty death waiting to happen.

The pick head method is an ‘emergency’ foothold measure to get that extra foot or two away from the ladder in a tough spot, not for everyday use. If you have the ladder, use it. Makes sense to me.

This class looks like it is instilling some questionable practices on impressionable minds.

HM

The Blind leading the Blind…!!!!!

It will be a beautiful LODD Service though…
Big, shiney fire trucks all in a row..
Pipes and Drums..
New, tightly folded flag for the widow..
A new NamePlate on “the monument”

WOW, look how they honored this Fallen Hero
Hell, the Service will cost more than the training that lead to the LODD.!!!

“For 200 years we’ve been providing a service at the expense of those providing the service.” Alan Brunacini, Fire Chief (ret) PFD

1. Count the High Risk Actions: a. Using unvalidated foot holds for regular operations that is almost certainly not a recommended use by the manufacturer; b. Not being tied off on a roof outside the ladder zone; c. Using a chain saw just above your own foot; d. Using a chain saw above and facing toward a FF below.

2. Neither of the two FFs on the right are using faceshields and one may not even have on eye protection!!

Haven’t they seen the famous PPT on FirefighterCloseCalls that shows a FF with a nail in his nose? And it was put there by a chain saw!!

We are all entitled to our opinions and I do not question the intent or intentions of individuals or organizations which do not care for the roof hook foot hold.

I however have used this method at fires, cut many acquired structures with steep pitches off a hook and teach this method around the country to many students of varied skill and background.

It is the most stable method of cutting a steep pitch I have ever seen or tried. Known as the “Matson” after a Seattle fireman Brian Matson (Driver Ladder Company 11, Platoon Delta) this method provides a very secure footing on a slimy or iced roof here in the soggy northwest.

While the video posted shows some minor points I do not like, the general concept is similar to the way I teach and use the roof hook.

Falling off the roof is the single greatest hazard of steep pitch roof ops, and the “Matson” provides a very secure method of rapidly and safely placing a 4×4 to 6×6 hole in the roof in just 2 or 3 minutes.

Tom Hofland
Ladder Company 4, Platoon Charlie
Seattle Fire Department

http://www.firetowntrainingspecialist.com

“200 years of Fire Service Tradition, unaffected by logic or progress.”

Yeah.. That’s how we’ve always done it..
No finding AN ALTERNATIVE to getting on
STEEP, SLIMY, ICY, or WEAK, or LIGHT-WEIGHT ROOFS…

LIKE PPV.!!!!

Nah… we’ll keep using the “McGillacuddy” cause that’s
how Grandpa and Pappy always did it.
(this is called the “Leather Helmet Syndrome” )

.. on a STEEP, SLIMY, ICY, WEAK, LIGHT-WEIGHT ROOF the “McGillacuddy”
“provides a very secure method of rapidly and safely placing…”
(Translation… not enough OSHA lawsuits to prevent THIS crap..)

I’ll bet I can start (12) PPV Fans before you can “safely”
obtain/throw the ground ladder,(raise the aerial), place your roof ladder,
set your dubious “safe foot-holds” and “safely BUT RAPIDLY”,
cut your vent..!!!

Oh… you don’t HAVE (12-10-8-6) PPV fans on scene with the 1st alarm.???
OF COURSE NOT.!!!! IT’S NOT TRADITIONAL.!!!

Nor is Class-A Foam.!!! Nor is COLD-FIRE.!! Nor is CAFS..!!!
Why, oh why, would we want to make fire extinguishment more
effective and safer than just using TRADITIONAL water.?!!!!
“That’s how we’ve always done it..”

BUT, you can bet we’re
on a STEEP, SLIMY, ICY, WEAK, LIGHT-WEIGHT ROOF
using the “McGillacuddy”
in our soot covered, heat-warped “Leather Helmets”…

I don’t know why I should find THIS unusual..
Look how long it took the Fire Service to find something better
than “ditch-digger” boots…
(and they’re still on the job in some places!!!)

It’s just after 35-years I’m sick-to-death of all the
LOD deaths, serious burns, life-changing injuries, broken-body retirements
not to mention the widows, fatherless-kids…
THAT WERE CAUSED by our foolish, idiotic love of “FD TRADITION”

Buy Hey…
I’ll bet Seattle FD (substitute any large FD)
throws one heck of a LODD Service..
… “just like they have always done it” …

“For 200 years we’ve been providing a service at the expense of those providing the service.” Alan Brunacini, Fire Chief (ret) PFD

Tradition is not bad. It is remembering our history so that we do not repeat the mistakes of those that came before us. Tradition is the memory of our fallen brothers and the lessons we must learn from their sacrifice. If we do not remember our tradition we are doomed to repeat our failures.

Tradition is not dogma. It does not tell us to do something a specific way but tells us why we do something. Its not what helmet you wear but why you wear the helmet. As the march of man continues we will be given new methods, technology, and capabilities. We owe it to those that have come before us and payed the blood price to use the new to prevent the tragedies of old. Failure to improve and do better than our previous generations is an affront to tradition and disrespectful of our history. Tradition is paramount.

Remember fallen brothers – That is tradition.

Cutting a roof may not be the best, preferred, or safest way to mitigate a given fire. When it is necessary, however, we owe it to our members to have developed, trained, and practiced on a proven method for getting the job done. The “matson” roof hook method is one way of safely performing vertical ventilation which was developed in collaboration with our state OSHA to allow firefighters to operate with confidence on a steep pitched roof.

While it is true that I work for a large fire department and we are therefor severely handicapped by our volume of experience, the number of buildings saved and lost, people pulled out of fires or missed, and the opportunity to try many tactics we have a rich and deep tradition of “progress”.

We utilize fans at nearly every fire, every pumper has class A foam, and we continually strive to improve our service. Like any tool these are not golden bullets that solve all the worlds problems. Our tradition informs us that the physics and chemistry of the fire ground is unchanged. Ventilation allows the attack and water puts it out.

While we have not had a combat related LODD in 14 years I still remember the lessons of the nearly 100 fallen brothers on my city memorial. I don’t know if the services were all nice but I do know that I will do everything I can to prevent another one while doing my duty to the city.

Our LODD reports indicate the leading cause of combat death is hostile fire behavior. I will never shrink from placing myself on a roof in a controlled, safe manner to relieve conditions on the interior for my brothers on the pipe who are in clear and present danger. If the roof needs to be opened my department has provided the skills, training, resources, and support to safely and effectively get the job done.

If its not safe to be on the roof it sure as hell isn’t safe to be under it.

Tom Hofland
Ladder Company 4, Platoon Charlie
Proud of our Tradition

Hats off to you Tom. That was very well said. I wonder exactly how many roofs Firegears has actually been on?? I also have used rubbish hooks, halligans, and axes as footholds. Firegirls, er firegears or whomever, and others like you…grow a set or let the MEN do the job.

Michael Riley
46 Squad

Well said Tom.

LLLLLOOOOLLLLLLL!!!!

How “Mas Macho” of the Leather-Head crowd.!!!!

Anyone attempts to change their FD tradition (read – their INDENTY )
and the testosterone BOYS will begin to bark insults.

That’s fine..
Their boorish behavior allows Real MEN to recognize the immature.

Real Men will continue to logically use progressive techniques
to make the job safer and more effective so they can GO HOME to
their families and communities. (read – their identity)

Real Men will continue to mourn those lost, burnt and injured on the job.
(Even the dangerous, insecure “children” who find their way in to the ranks.)

Real Men will continue in attempting to mentor the immature.
Why.??
Because sometimes they GROW UP.!!!!

“For 200 years we’ve been providing a service at the expense of those providing the service.” Alan Brunacini, Fire Chief (ret) PFD