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The Helmet Debate – Jump In

32 comments

We’re trying something new here at Firegeezer today.  One of our readers, Matt B. wants to debate the pro’s and con’s of helmet styles.  So he’s going to kick this off with his opinion and we’d like to hear yours, too.  Write down your rebuttal, or agreement, in the Comments following Matt’s statement.  Tell us what you think.  Ok, here’s Matt:

First off, just so you know, I wear a Cairns 1010 at my station and keep a Cairns 360 Structural in the trunk of my car. My volunteer fire department issued me the 1010, but as happens with a lot of volunteers I picked up an additional one on my own dime. I bought the 360 because it was inexpensive, it was lightweight, and it’d afford some protection if I were helping out at a rescue on the side of the road.

cairns-360

          Cairns 360

A lot of guys I know, however, drop up to $600 for specialty leather helmets like the Sam Houston to supplant their standard department-issued helmet. As far as I can tell, this happens for three reasons: 1) they’re more comfortable, which I can understand, 2) they look really cool, and 3) they’re a reflection of a fire service tradition. Never mind the fact that they don’t afford any additional protection, that wearing self-purchased equipment can raise liability questions, or that it’s very difficult to decontaminate a leather helmet.

cairns1044

         Cairns 1044

 I don’t want to get into the “leather forever” debate, and I recognize that these helmets are a reflection of an esprit de corps that is important to fire service morale. But it’s not just the leather component- Americans consciously choose fire helmets whose entire design is an anachronism. We force manufacturers to juggle protective capabilities against cosmetic features like oversized brims and high-profile shield holders, instead of holding them accountable for building the safest possible helmet, period.

 Wildland firefighters, as well as our foreign brothers in Britain, Ireland, New Zealand and Japan, long ago embraced helmets solely designed for protection, not “tradition” or fashion. But when I’ve mentioned this at the dinner table in my station, most responses tend to center around how silly “other” helmets look, and how American-style helmets are the best fit for, and I quote, “real” firefighting.

helmet-asian

       Asian helmet

 I’ve been involved with fire departments in four states, all on the East Coast, and in seven years have seen a grand total of two jet-style helmets in front-line use. Both were purchased by their wearers, and not by the department. (If someone else has seen them in action in the US, please let me know.)

 I found it interesting that their buddies were quietly jealous at the comfort, protection and durability of the jet-style helmets, and even acknowledged they were probably safer. But these guys couldn’t make the leap to ask their leadership to purchase a few, let alone shell out their own cash, because they were universally afraid of being mocked for wearing something new, different or “unfashionable.” Where else in our protective ensemble or equipment lockers would we admit to letting tradition take precedence over safety? Our fire apparatus? Our medical gear?

helmet-uk

            UK helmet

 I’m not saying that jet-style helmets are the answer to everything. But do we have any practical reasons for continuing to place such a premium on history and tradition in the design of a piece of gear that’s built to keep our heads safe? And if not, what will it take to get the American fire service to start demanding protective equipment that puts function first, and fashion last? Because if we want it, they’ll make it.

 Looking forward to hearing your thoughts.

Update, April 7, 3:00 pm:
As a point of information, Firegeezer reader Carl S. has sent along this photo of the MSA helmet being used by the Quebec City FD.

helmet-quebec

You can see several more fireground shots illustrating the helmet “in action” HERE.  (Fire photo fans, be sure to click on it.)

Posted by on April 6, 2009 • Filed under: commentary
  • Justin Schorr

    I work in a large west coast fire department and this conversation is not an East Coast only one by a long shot.
    I had a section of roof fall 30 feet on me a few years back, rung my bell pretty good. I came to in the stairwell where the teams were removing my jacket. I asked them if the building was on fire could they please put my coat back on.
    My head was roaring in pain, but my neck was not. I was boarded and transported, finally regaining my full senses.
    The trauma docs were looking at my personal leather helmet and turning it over and over in their hands.
    “Where’s that ratchet thing you guys wear?” Referring to the ratchet harness that keeps the helmet securely on our heads.
    “That’s an older style, doesn’t have it.” I mumbled.
    “No wonder your neck didn’t break.” I asked them to put that in writing, but of course they would not.
    The force of the falling ceiling boards struck my dome shaped helmet, which redirected the force laterally and rolled to the side of my head, not breaking my neck.
    I don’t wear that helmet anymore simply because it was not the one issued to me by my service. I have to balance my desire to be safe and my desire to be covered by disability should anything happen.
    Long story longer, I’m simply pro helmet.

  • Justin Schorr

    I work in a large west coast fire department and this conversation is not an East Coast only one by a long shot.
    I had a section of roof fall 30 feet on me a few years back, rung my bell pretty good. I came to in the stairwell where the teams were removing my jacket. I asked them if the building was on fire could they please put my coat back on.
    My head was roaring in pain, but my neck was not. I was boarded and transported, finally regaining my full senses.
    The trauma docs were looking at my personal leather helmet and turning it over and over in their hands.
    “Where’s that ratchet thing you guys wear?” Referring to the ratchet harness that keeps the helmet securely on our heads.
    “That’s an older style, doesn’t have it.” I mumbled.
    “No wonder your neck didn’t break.” I asked them to put that in writing, but of course they would not.
    The force of the falling ceiling boards struck my dome shaped helmet, which redirected the force laterally and rolled to the side of my head, not breaking my neck.
    I don’t wear that helmet anymore simply because it was not the one issued to me by my service. I have to balance my desire to be safe and my desire to be covered by disability should anything happen.
    Long story longer, I’m simply pro helmet.

  • FIREhat

    I’m anti-salad bowl for several reasons. I admit they are more comfortable and lighter, but they also offer little in the way of neck protection during overhaul. I also prefer the longer front brim with Bourkes of a traditional to the shorter front brim with shield or goggles of a modern style. The latter is somewhat unwieldy.

    But those are minor issues. The truth is that the traditional helmet is far more fashionable and, well, traditional. Tradition is not a bad thing as long as it doesn’t compromise our effectiveness or safety. Are the moderns any safer than the traditionals? I doubt they are in any big way, and I feel they are less safe in small ways because of the shorter brims.

    FYI, I am currently wearing a Ben 2 with (NFPA-compliant) Bourkes. I previously wore a 1010 with a shield as my issued helmet and an N6A with Bourkes as my personal helmet. I retired the Sam when I promoted rather than repaint it. I also had a New Yorker that was stolen in 2000 (argh!).

  • FIREhat

    I’m anti-salad bowl for several reasons. I admit they are more comfortable and lighter, but they also offer little in the way of neck protection during overhaul. I also prefer the longer front brim with Bourkes of a traditional to the shorter front brim with shield or goggles of a modern style. The latter is somewhat unwieldy.

    But those are minor issues. The truth is that the traditional helmet is far more fashionable and, well, traditional. Tradition is not a bad thing as long as it doesn’t compromise our effectiveness or safety. Are the moderns any safer than the traditionals? I doubt they are in any big way, and I feel they are less safe in small ways because of the shorter brims.

    FYI, I am currently wearing a Ben 2 with (NFPA-compliant) Bourkes. I previously wore a 1010 with a shield as my issued helmet and an N6A with Bourkes as my personal helmet. I retired the Sam when I promoted rather than repaint it. I also had a New Yorker that was stolen in 2000 (argh!).

  • Jack White

    I have been in the fire service for 29 years and have not had an incident where my helmet make would have made a difference nor have any of my fire friends had such an incident. This talk has been around since I have been involved in the fire service and I am sure it will continue. The fact that it does not show up on NIOSH/LODD makes it a mute point for me. Lets get members to slow down and wear seatbelts when we solve that problem we can discuss changing our health issues etc. I see helmet type way down the line. Just make sure you wear it when needed.

  • Jack White

    I have been in the fire service for 29 years and have not had an incident where my helmet make would have made a difference nor have any of my fire friends had such an incident. This talk has been around since I have been involved in the fire service and I am sure it will continue. The fact that it does not show up on NIOSH/LODD makes it a mute point for me. Lets get members to slow down and wear seatbelts when we solve that problem we can discuss changing our health issues etc. I see helmet type way down the line. Just make sure you wear it when needed.

  • Dal90

    I wasn’t aware there was a rash of injuries caused by improper helmets in the U.S.

    History and tradition can be a legitimate end in their own right, so far as they don’t conflict with reasonable and legitimate safety concerns.

    That safer designs are out there does not mean safer designs are necessary.

    A mayor I know said they did the math on implementing NFPA 1500 style physicals (instead of the much simpler general worker’s comp ones) for their volunteer fire department. Would there be less risk of injury with everyone at NFPA 1500? Most likely. But it would cost more annually to perform the NFPA 1500 physicals then what the community paid in Workermen’s Compensation Insurance. The insurance acutuaries had spoken — there was no financial reason what so ever to adopt NFPA 1500 since they couldn’t possibly save enough on insurance to offset the cost.

    I would strongly suspect helmets are the same — the safety aspects of them are so tiny as to be neglible and insignificant in the big picture.

    Lime green trucks anyone? They’re safer.

  • Dal90

    I wasn’t aware there was a rash of injuries caused by improper helmets in the U.S.

    History and tradition can be a legitimate end in their own right, so far as they don’t conflict with reasonable and legitimate safety concerns.

    That safer designs are out there does not mean safer designs are necessary.

    A mayor I know said they did the math on implementing NFPA 1500 style physicals (instead of the much simpler general worker’s comp ones) for their volunteer fire department. Would there be less risk of injury with everyone at NFPA 1500? Most likely. But it would cost more annually to perform the NFPA 1500 physicals then what the community paid in Workermen’s Compensation Insurance. The insurance acutuaries had spoken — there was no financial reason what so ever to adopt NFPA 1500 since they couldn’t possibly save enough on insurance to offset the cost.

    I would strongly suspect helmets are the same — the safety aspects of them are so tiny as to be neglible and insignificant in the big picture.

    Lime green trucks anyone? They’re safer.

  • Freddie

    Ahh….. the controversy continues! Will the question ever end? I say it will not, for the reason there may be a safer helmet….. eventually.

    I’ve worn turtle shells for two departments I worked for. They were light, performed well, and provided the necessary protection at a cost acceptable to the community taxpayers. The only downside I ever had with my plastic helmets was the plastic helmets tendency to deform and/or melt when exposed to high temps. These incidents occurred while working for a paid, rural department with 2 man engine companies. All the physical damage was sustained during “risk alot to save alot” operations.

    Both departments (and my volunteer department) allowed use of personal helmets, provided the helmet met appropriate regulatory requirments and was inspected by the department quartermaster. I liked my leather helmet. The helmet took great amounts of abuse, provided additional neck protection, and was a safety product I liked (which meant I’d wear the thing all the time, just like you should…).

    Another thing I noticed about my leather helmet versus my plastics: the leather helmet took the great amounts of heat without any safety issues. (Again, risk alot to save alot operations) By this, I mean the helmet paint my darken or burn away or the leather may have slightly charred; however, a good scuffing, washing, inspection, and coat of touch-up painting was all required to get me safely back in service. My melted plastic helmets required a trip to headquarters for the quartermaster to issue a new one.

  • Freddie

    Ahh….. the controversy continues! Will the question ever end? I say it will not, for the reason there may be a safer helmet….. eventually.

    I’ve worn turtle shells for two departments I worked for. They were light, performed well, and provided the necessary protection at a cost acceptable to the community taxpayers. The only downside I ever had with my plastic helmets was the plastic helmets tendency to deform and/or melt when exposed to high temps. These incidents occurred while working for a paid, rural department with 2 man engine companies. All the physical damage was sustained during “risk alot to save alot” operations.

    Both departments (and my volunteer department) allowed use of personal helmets, provided the helmet met appropriate regulatory requirments and was inspected by the department quartermaster. I liked my leather helmet. The helmet took great amounts of abuse, provided additional neck protection, and was a safety product I liked (which meant I’d wear the thing all the time, just like you should…).

    Another thing I noticed about my leather helmet versus my plastics: the leather helmet took the great amounts of heat without any safety issues. (Again, risk alot to save alot operations) By this, I mean the helmet paint my darken or burn away or the leather may have slightly charred; however, a good scuffing, washing, inspection, and coat of touch-up painting was all required to get me safely back in service. My melted plastic helmets required a trip to headquarters for the quartermaster to issue a new one.

  • DaGonz

    I am one of the “leather forever” crowd. Take care of your lid, it will take care of you.

    My first FD issued lid was a Cairns 770 Philadelphian, followed by 3 Cairns 660 Metros, 3 Cairns 1010′s and then a Bullard traditional.

    With the exception of one of the 1010′s that was stolen out of the rig at a medical call and the Bullard (the most uncomforatble POS lid I have ever worn) all of the others lasted less than 3 yers bfore showing signs of deterioration that necessitated replacement… cracks in the fiberglass/thermoplastic.

    I bought my first leather lid, a Cairns N6A in the mid 1990′s and then a N5A New Yorker in 2000. The New Yorker has been refinished once, and only because I got promoted to Deputy Chief in 2007 and had to have a white lid per FD rules/regs.

    The leathers have gone through hell and back and only needed a little touch up paint to bring them back to a new look condition.

    I bought the leathers out of my uniform allowance.

    The cost of the 8 pleather/salad bowls far exceeded the cost of my 2 leathers.

  • DaGonz

    I am one of the “leather forever” crowd. Take care of your lid, it will take care of you.

    My first FD issued lid was a Cairns 770 Philadelphian, followed by 3 Cairns 660 Metros, 3 Cairns 1010′s and then a Bullard traditional.

    With the exception of one of the 1010′s that was stolen out of the rig at a medical call and the Bullard (the most uncomforatble POS lid I have ever worn) all of the others lasted less than 3 yers bfore showing signs of deterioration that necessitated replacement… cracks in the fiberglass/thermoplastic.

    I bought my first leather lid, a Cairns N6A in the mid 1990′s and then a N5A New Yorker in 2000. The New Yorker has been refinished once, and only because I got promoted to Deputy Chief in 2007 and had to have a white lid per FD rules/regs.

    The leathers have gone through hell and back and only needed a little touch up paint to bring them back to a new look condition.

    I bought the leathers out of my uniform allowance.

    The cost of the 8 pleather/salad bowls far exceeded the cost of my 2 leathers.

  • Matt B.

    Just wanted to clarify a point about my original post. I recognize the argument that leathers tend to hold up better after repeated exposure to extreme fire conditions and that the plastic-construction helmets, anecdotally, degrade more rapidly. But even our leathers and moderns don’t look radically different when compared to the Euro-style helmets or the Asian one pictured.

    Some might argue that these differing helmet styles reflect the disparate methods of fire attack our foreign friends employ. While there’s something to that, I also believe it reflects their willingness to take a hard look at their gear and prioritize what is safest over what might be considered most fashionable.

    On the other hand, as Freddie astutely pointed out, people will wear protective equipment more often if they like how it fits, feels or looks.

  • Matt B.

    Just wanted to clarify a point about my original post. I recognize the argument that leathers tend to hold up better after repeated exposure to extreme fire conditions and that the plastic-construction helmets, anecdotally, degrade more rapidly. But even our leathers and moderns don’t look radically different when compared to the Euro-style helmets or the Asian one pictured.

    Some might argue that these differing helmet styles reflect the disparate methods of fire attack our foreign friends employ. While there’s something to that, I also believe it reflects their willingness to take a hard look at their gear and prioritize what is safest over what might be considered most fashionable.

    On the other hand, as Freddie astutely pointed out, people will wear protective equipment more often if they like how it fits, feels or looks.

  • Freddie

    Matt B, maybe the answer can be found by going one step further than your original question: I believe the helmets in European and Asian countries have their distinctive shape because of how the helmet is integrated with the protective ensemble. For example, a good number of the European protective coats I’ve seen have a hood (made of the same material at the coat) which is pulled OVER the “jet fighter” shaped helmet. This provides excellent coverage for the firefighters neck and head area.

    US style protective coats lack this “hood” feature; our helmets don’t have the “fighter pilot” shape because our protective ensembles are of a different style from those in countries which use the rounded helmet shape. This is just my observation and opinion….

    I’m not 100% sure of my hypothesis, but if any of you have European and/or Asian fire buddies, maybe they can tell you if my “hood hypothesis” holds water. (No pun intended)

  • Freddie

    Matt B, maybe the answer can be found by going one step further than your original question: I believe the helmets in European and Asian countries have their distinctive shape because of how the helmet is integrated with the protective ensemble. For example, a good number of the European protective coats I’ve seen have a hood (made of the same material at the coat) which is pulled OVER the “jet fighter” shaped helmet. This provides excellent coverage for the firefighters neck and head area.

    US style protective coats lack this “hood” feature; our helmets don’t have the “fighter pilot” shape because our protective ensembles are of a different style from those in countries which use the rounded helmet shape. This is just my observation and opinion….

    I’m not 100% sure of my hypothesis, but if any of you have European and/or Asian fire buddies, maybe they can tell you if my “hood hypothesis” holds water. (No pun intended)

  • http://www.iaff3499.com/ Nate

    Ah, the fire service…”200 years of tradition unimpeded by progress”. I had to throw that in there for a laugh. I think Freddie and Matt may be on to something with the different ensembles approach…even their apparatus are completely different.

    In my career, I’ve worn both the moderns and traditionals (you get the luck of the draw at my dept., as our gear guy stocks both Cairns moderns and Bullard traditionals). While the moderns are slighlty lighter, I still feel they get in the way while crawling and looking up (due to the sharper angle of the brim. The construction of the traditionals has been getting better, though, as many are now as light and comfortable as the moderns.

    As far as leathers, it would seem they would absorb an impact a little better due to the way the shell and impact cap are situated. As far as contamination, if the paint’s kept properly maintained, it shouldn’t be an issue.

    I’m not sure about the Asian/Euro helmets, as they seem bigger and a little bulkier. I’d be curious to see how their hearing/radio communications are affected by it. I have, however, worn a French helmet (my captain traded helmets with a visiting Frenchman). It was smaller than the asian and looked almost exactly like something a medieval knight would have worn…but boy was it light, comfortable, and user-friendly.

    Anyway, now that I’m done rambling, what’s up with those lids you guys are wearing on the west coast? I’ve wondered about those for years.

    Stay safe out there.

  • http://www.iaff3499.com Nate

    Ah, the fire service…”200 years of tradition unimpeded by progress”. I had to throw that in there for a laugh. I think Freddie and Matt may be on to something with the different ensembles approach…even their apparatus are completely different.

    In my career, I’ve worn both the moderns and traditionals (you get the luck of the draw at my dept., as our gear guy stocks both Cairns moderns and Bullard traditionals). While the moderns are slighlty lighter, I still feel they get in the way while crawling and looking up (due to the sharper angle of the brim. The construction of the traditionals has been getting better, though, as many are now as light and comfortable as the moderns.

    As far as leathers, it would seem they would absorb an impact a little better due to the way the shell and impact cap are situated. As far as contamination, if the paint’s kept properly maintained, it shouldn’t be an issue.

    I’m not sure about the Asian/Euro helmets, as they seem bigger and a little bulkier. I’d be curious to see how their hearing/radio communications are affected by it. I have, however, worn a French helmet (my captain traded helmets with a visiting Frenchman). It was smaller than the asian and looked almost exactly like something a medieval knight would have worn…but boy was it light, comfortable, and user-friendly.

    Anyway, now that I’m done rambling, what’s up with those lids you guys are wearing on the west coast? I’ve wondered about those for years.

    Stay safe out there.

  • Fireman J Lowe

    Leathers are my choice have had two for years, one for work and one for the squirrel’s. We were issued 1044s they are very nice. light and very balanced.
    If I had to buy another helmet it would be the 1044. And thats my two cents. Be safe all

  • Fireman J Lowe

    Leathers are my choice have had two for years, one for work and one for the squirrel’s. We were issued 1044s they are very nice. light and very balanced.
    If I had to buy another helmet it would be the 1044. And thats my two cents. Be safe all

  • Robert Baron

    I worked on a front line engine for several years and we wore the Cairns 360, and it worked just fine.Than a few years ago I went to work at a western Colorado Airport and they also wore the 360 again it worked just fine. Than I went to a live fire training at Denver International Airport where they had this funny looking helmet. I was like what the hell! Any way they gave me this brand new helmet right out of the box that they called a Euro helmet (The Asian) “Go ahead they said, “try it” OK I said what the heck. First evolution was a downed Metro-liner, people trapped w/fire. Well we grabbed up our gear. I snagged a ladder and started around the aircraft and SMASHED my head right into the outside leading edge of the wing tip. I’M OK so I guess it worked OK too except I could not see to the sides very well. After the evolution I gave them back the helmet along with the 4″ gouge in the topside. Thay can keep that one – don’t like it. A year ago we got the Cairns 1010 w/ integrated safety glass & we love em – so to each thir own. Oh ya there is a reason why welders wear leather.

  • Robert Baron

    I worked on a front line engine for several years and we wore the Cairns 360, and it worked just fine.Than a few years ago I went to work at a western Colorado Airport and they also wore the 360 again it worked just fine. Than I went to a live fire training at Denver International Airport where they had this funny looking helmet. I was like what the hell! Any way they gave me this brand new helmet right out of the box that they called a Euro helmet (The Asian) “Go ahead they said, “try it” OK I said what the heck. First evolution was a downed Metro-liner, people trapped w/fire. Well we grabbed up our gear. I snagged a ladder and started around the aircraft and SMASHED my head right into the outside leading edge of the wing tip. I’M OK so I guess it worked OK too except I could not see to the sides very well. After the evolution I gave them back the helmet along with the 4″ gouge in the topside. Thay can keep that one – don’t like it. A year ago we got the Cairns 1010 w/ integrated safety glass & we love em – so to each thir own. Oh ya there is a reason why welders wear leather.

  • Ryan

    I’d like to propose this view. It’s a traditional look to the public as well. Kids along with their parents, the public, government officials; they all come in and see our trucks equipment and gear. They also like to see our helmets.
    By this I mean that the Traditional American Fire Helmet is an icon to the public in which we serve. Kids dress up as firefighters for Halloween, they don their traditional helmet. Kids stop by the fire house, we give them (tradional looking)plastic helmets. Look in coloring books, and their videos. Look at dispaly banners and media brochures.

    It just seems to make since that the Tradional American Fire Helmet has been a symbol of our profession for 200 years. [img]http://www.ushistory.org/franklin/philadelphia/images/fire3.jpg[/img]

  • Ryan

    I’d like to propose this view. It’s a traditional look to the public as well. Kids along with their parents, the public, government officials; they all come in and see our trucks equipment and gear. They also like to see our helmets.
    By this I mean that the Traditional American Fire Helmet is an icon to the public in which we serve. Kids dress up as firefighters for Halloween, they don their traditional helmet. Kids stop by the fire house, we give them (tradional looking)plastic helmets. Look in coloring books, and their videos. Look at dispaly banners and media brochures.

    It just seems to make since that the Tradional American Fire Helmet has been a symbol of our profession for 200 years. [img]http://www.ushistory.org/franklin/philadelphia/images/fire3.jpg[/img]

  • http://www.fwnetz.de/ Irakli

    Funny how each and any part of the world has its own similar little debate! I’d never even think of spending $600 on a helmet, let alone on a leather one, but this isn’t the US and our Tradition might be a little bit different in that respect.

    Mind you, I can only speak of the German view of things.

    Until a couple of decades ago, German firefighters were pretty much equipped with a standard helmet, which we call “DIN Schüssel” (DIN bowl, here is a picture where I recreate 20 yrs. old PPE http://www.flickr.com/photos/40833837@N00/3157386986/in/set-72157606326807868/). The shape is historic and ought to be familiar around the world. Incidentally, it also offers good protection, which is probably why the US Army and NATO have introduced this shape.

    But that’s for military purposes, and firefighting has certainly moved on.

    Today, you’ll almost find a different shape from FD to FD, which entrenched opinions.

    In general, it is safe to say that there are two “schools”: one favours helmets I call “lollipops”, which cover most of the head, and the others are “half head”, ie come to above the ears like most US helmets.

    Here’s a picture where I wear my favourite helmet http://www.flickr.com/photos/40833837@N00/3159394218/in/set-72157606326807868/ which has kept the standard shape, but to modern standards. The helmet is plastic.

    I’ve tried my fair share of helmets, including the famous French F1 (also worn by Montreal FD), and the main issue is that I can’t hear a thing when it goes below my ears. Ever tried using a radio when you can’t stick the speaker to your ear? Nah :)

  • http://www.fwnetz.de Irakli

    Funny how each and any part of the world has its own similar little debate! I’d never even think of spending $600 on a helmet, let alone on a leather one, but this isn’t the US and our Tradition might be a little bit different in that respect.

    Mind you, I can only speak of the German view of things.

    Until a couple of decades ago, German firefighters were pretty much equipped with a standard helmet, which we call “DIN Schüssel” (DIN bowl, here is a picture where I recreate 20 yrs. old PPE http://www.flickr.com/photos/40833837@N00/3157386986/in/set-72157606326807868/). The shape is historic and ought to be familiar around the world. Incidentally, it also offers good protection, which is probably why the US Army and NATO have introduced this shape.

    But that’s for military purposes, and firefighting has certainly moved on.

    Today, you’ll almost find a different shape from FD to FD, which entrenched opinions.

    In general, it is safe to say that there are two “schools”: one favours helmets I call “lollipops”, which cover most of the head, and the others are “half head”, ie come to above the ears like most US helmets.

    Here’s a picture where I wear my favourite helmet http://www.flickr.com/photos/40833837@N00/3159394218/in/set-72157606326807868/ which has kept the standard shape, but to modern standards. The helmet is plastic.

    I’ve tried my fair share of helmets, including the famous French F1 (also worn by Montreal FD), and the main issue is that I can’t hear a thing when it goes below my ears. Ever tried using a radio when you can’t stick the speaker to your ear? Nah :)

  • Mike

    I am currently using a MP Ben 2. Prior to that I was a all leather guy, however the last one i purchased would crack on the brim, then the wire would show, a short fall would chip it. Since I started using the BEN 2 i have had no problems, it is a very tough helmet.

  • Mike

    I am currently using a MP Ben 2. Prior to that I was a all leather guy, however the last one i purchased would crack on the brim, then the wire would show, a short fall would chip it. Since I started using the BEN 2 i have had no problems, it is a very tough helmet.

  • Paul Young

    I have worn the salad bowls, both Cairns and Bullard, tradiionals, Cairns 1010, Houston and Paul Conway, and at my volly job a Bullard traditional, this all over 24 years in the fire service. I too have also experienced a partial collapse on a couple of occations. The worst was an 18′ 2×12 with a garage door opener attached, that landed on my Conway. Other than a stiff neck the next day, it held up just fine and is still in service. I have seen in my department the old domes take less and fail. I owe it to my family to wear the best protection I can. That seems to be a traditional leather helmet.
    As far as the Asian style helmet,I have tried on one of the Euro style which is similar, and I wasn’t comfortable with the reduced hearing capabilities that helmet afforded. 24 years riding BRT’s has already taken some hearing, I can’t afford to reduce what I have left.
    Any thoughts on that? Great thread and thanks for the forum.

  • Paul Young

    I have worn the salad bowls, both Cairns and Bullard, tradiionals, Cairns 1010, Houston and Paul Conway, and at my volly job a Bullard traditional, this all over 24 years in the fire service. I too have also experienced a partial collapse on a couple of occations. The worst was an 18′ 2×12 with a garage door opener attached, that landed on my Conway. Other than a stiff neck the next day, it held up just fine and is still in service. I have seen in my department the old domes take less and fail. I owe it to my family to wear the best protection I can. That seems to be a traditional leather helmet.
    As far as the Asian style helmet,I have tried on one of the Euro style which is similar, and I wasn’t comfortable with the reduced hearing capabilities that helmet afforded. 24 years riding BRT’s has already taken some hearing, I can’t afford to reduce what I have left.
    Any thoughts on that? Great thread and thanks for the forum.

  • B.Morgan

    The white german helmet looks right out of WWII.

    I realy like the look of the old style leather helmet, its got a look of class about it. But I have worn a 360 most of my time and it does the job, but will blister under high heat, perhaps a hint you should have gotten out sooner. That one is in my shed.

    In Wildland fire I started with an aluminum cap style till they were outlawed, went to a fiberglass one I had for many years and liked it a great deal. It was very tought and took a great deal of wear and tear very well saving me from a number of impacts. Once retired it hung on my office wall till someone walked off with it. Now I have a run of the mill plastic one.

    I still hunt in the far reaches of yard and estate sales along with antique stores for that old leather one to hang on the wall.

  • B.Morgan

    The white german helmet looks right out of WWII.

    I realy like the look of the old style leather helmet, its got a look of class about it. But I have worn a 360 most of my time and it does the job, but will blister under high heat, perhaps a hint you should have gotten out sooner. That one is in my shed.

    In Wildland fire I started with an aluminum cap style till they were outlawed, went to a fiberglass one I had for many years and liked it a great deal. It was very tought and took a great deal of wear and tear very well saving me from a number of impacts. Once retired it hung on my office wall till someone walked off with it. Now I have a run of the mill plastic one.

    I still hunt in the far reaches of yard and estate sales along with antique stores for that old leather one to hang on the wall.