Morning Lineup – January 14

I have to agree with Sparky. And I'm just a voluenter in the arctic!

Texas Gordo (30) and TruckCaptain180 (32)...

First to Tex... Good answer if you were answering any of my questions! Nicely done. I hope some of these other "Brothers" who are on the attack here read and learn. In reference to your question my answer is YES, these (4.7ppm) are TWA (Time Weighted Averages) values over an 8hr period. In ref to your second question about the pump operator my answer is NO, we are not assuming that this is okay due to being outside the TWA. That data was collected on November 7th and was from a single training fire. We are still in the process of collecting data. However, There are currently two schools of thought on a solution for HCN exposure outside in passive smoke. One solution is to establish a hot zone at every working fire and everyone in that hot zone will have SCBA on and operating. The hot zone can be a pre-established distance ie: 100' at "every working fire" or it could be established by air monitoring which would cause one company to be designated for that purpose. The other solution deals more specifically with the pump operator position and that would be to purchase and assign a monitor to that position. When that monitor alarms at 4.7ppm, the pump operator donns and places into operation his SCBA. When it comes out of alarm, mask comes off. On a side note, there is HCN emmitted in exhaust. So we are trying to determine the source.

Single gas HCN monitor = $325.00, 34l cylinder of HCN calgas = $220.00.

And now to truckcaptain180... it is duely noted that you have not returned to this thread since the truth has been printed. Your comments are very unprofessional. I am surprised there isn't alot of volley bashing here too! (I am a two hatter if you know what that is) Truck Captain? What kind of truck? A Silverado, Ram or F-150?

If any of you on this thread would like additional information on HCN and what our department is doing... feelfree to contact me at hcnresearch@gmail.com Let me stress... DO NOT EMAIL ME UNLESS YOU TRUELY WANT INFORMATION. I DON'T HAVE TIME FOR THE CHILDISH BS DISPLAYED HERE.

My previous post was actually my own but due to the absence of the real facts , that post was sent directly to Chief Goldfeder in response to the secret list as well as posted on the departments website. Chief Goldfeder also added information from his conversation with the Chief and added his own perspective. His time taken to get the "Whole Story " out is appreciated.
No one ever said that there were no mistakes made. I don't know if i have ever been on a major call of any type without looking back at what could have been done different or better.
I understand that everyone was only commenting on the information at hand and for that you cannot be totally blamed. Just as we at our department have already learned from the mistakes made that day, I hope that everyone here learns to keep everything in perspective and maybe take a closer look before taking things to such extremes.

Da190,

I think the WTF urge boils up in all of us from time to time. You are correct that the missing piece of information here was the involvement of new medical protocols.

I read the NIOSH reports, and then I have to find someone else who read the same report and wants to talk about it. The great thing about blogs such as this is they've increased and raised the amount of discourse that takes place.

I agree with the "Truth" who noted that it is easy to criticize when you don't have to face the subject, and they can't defend themselves. I would argue that unless people hear the voices screaming for an explanation, there is often a avoidance of facing/owning up to the issue. Much like the FOD walk on a carrier, the fire service continues to be one where the lowest ranking members insist that senior officers lead by example. Can you imagine if the banks, mortgage companies, hedge funds, etc, had been run with a similar level of internal vigilance.

>Ok WTF! Dal90 and N/A your additude is why we
>kill over a 100 firefighters every year. there is
>no excuse, there was a fire and there was smoke.

No, it's not.

Failure to properly size-up an incident is a major cause of deaths, however, and most of the commenters here failed this test in their jump-to-conclusions posts here.

It raised a WTF? in my mind long before it was posted on TSL or here. As I suspected from the beginning, the problem was within some (multiple) ones having a new SOP go awry.

The poster TheTruth above largely quoted what came out on The Secret List today.

If you go back to my original post here:
> this was a situation were it **sounds to me**
>like the fairly new cyanide exposure protocols in
>Rhode Island were misapplied and/or need to be
>adjusted.

Now let's review what was reported in the TSL today, per their conversation with the Chief:
>The ems officer in charge not being familiar with
>HCN called there medical control at the hospital
>for advice. It was determined by the ems
>personnel that all personel in any part of the
>building without scbas would be transported as a
>precaution. Not one of the firefighters that were
>transported had any complaints or even wanted to
>go but because a Doctor had gotten involved there
>was some concern as far as liability so it was >agreed that they would go.

This was a protocol problem, not a lack of SCBA problem, not a leadership problem, not an operations problem.

I do expect officers arriving on apparatus to come off with airpacks on. I don't know in Hope Valley's case whether they arrived on apparatus, and it's an educated guess on my part they arrived POV.

> has been to food on the stove with smoke showing
>out 2 windows and it was 2 hotdogs. Likewise,
>I’ve been to similiar calls with barely a whisp
>of smoke but a burnt teflon pan that would choke
>out the hardest iron lunger.

Point well taken, and I probably wasn't that articulate in my original point.

Given a sealed building in winter, of the size of this complex, it's likely you wouldn't have seen smoke showing from the description of the incident.

I've seen it with an amazing amount of fire in a similiar complex -- if you looked at A, B, or D sides you wouldn't have thought there was a fire. On C side there was sprinklers activated on three floors and the attic due to the fire spreading by autoexposure. On one side of fire doors between sections you'd be in perfectly clear air, and the other side would have smoke banked down half way to the floor.

My comments were aimed at those commenters who thought the FFs had seen fire and smoke showing and went inside without SCBA anyway. Surprises like what the two first in officers found is why I like to have SCBA on your back, but that's not always a possibility if what works best in your district is for officers to respond direct POV and establish command and size-up the situation prior to the arrival of apparatus or higher ranking officers.

Go start reading the narratives of the NIOSH reports folks -- they're not perfect, but they're the best we have for most incidents. You'll find we kill more people due to bad size-up then failure to wear airpacks in a year. Now look at this thread and figure out how many people jumped to conclusions and didn't stop and say, "Wait, this is unusual, what could be going on here?"

We instruct our fire fighters to be on air during light smoke conditions, trash fires, auto fires, stove fires, overhauling, and any other observance of smoke conditions. We don't go smelling for the "odor of smoke" and we also don't do the taste test anymore. It doesn't have to IDLH...it's about protecting the FF for the long term. It's too late to say "I should have worn my pack" when you have testicular cancer, emphysema, lung cancer, or other tumors.

Enforce of safety protocols is the key.

Stay safe, stay alive.

I have read some good points from alot of you, no I was not there and yes its easy to point fingers but #34 said "These were the ONLY two personnel to enter the building without SCBA’s." like that was ok. now if the rest of the firefighters had to go because of a doctors order fine. yes that makes it look worse but we all need to look at the big picture here. I have read comments about Charlstons Chief compared to this one and that may be going a bit over board since we do not know all the facts. BIG PICTURE, FIREFIGHTER SAFETY.... All of you that try to defend unsafe actions need to think of the big picture. Now lets all (including myself) stop throwing stones at each other and the brothers that where there and start using close calls and LODD to learn. Be Safe, Go home to your loved ones, and think before you do something that may get in the way of that.

Re: #34 The truth said...

Wake up. The brotherhood exists for the good and the bad.

You don't transport firefighters needing a rescue task force unless you have done something wrong.

Smoke = mask.

Responsible party = Chief of Department.
Someone should wake him up, switch him from a nasal cannula to a non-rebreather and turn up the flow level. He couldn't have been concious on scene.....

Time for him to go hang out with the former Charleston Chief. Lots in common.

I can not believe what I am hearing? Every year we lose on an average of 100+ firefighters a year. Obviously from different things, but none the less we are losing 100 a year. OUR safety should be of the upmost importance here. Remember, it's the person who is calling 911 that is having the bad day! We should train safely and take those habits onto the fire ground and work safely. Why have an SCBA and not use it? To me, if you are receiving a "fire call", be it an alarm or a reported structure fire, DON YOUR SCBA's! It's very simple and if done everytime can be like putting on your pants.

I thought maybe you would be interested in the true story and events that occurred that day. The initial dispatch was reporting a box alarm at that location. The first personnel on the scene found the building to be evacuated and nothing showing from the exterior. The first 2 officers there proceeded to the alarm panel and knox box in the front entryway to investigate further. During that time none of the approximitely 30 occupants outside the building mentioned or reported any problems in the building. The two officers had no visual smoke or fire from there location. They then procede to the fire door leading to the corridor where the alarm had come in from and were met by an occupant exiting the doorway and a moderate smoke condition in that corridor. The occupant was reporting a fire in a room and people trapped. The 2 officers could here someone yelling from the end of the hallway which was approximitely 150 ft long.One of the officers immediately reported there finding to an arriving deputy chief. At this time they had to make a decision: either exit the building and the occupant calling for help to don scbas or attempt to locate the person yelling at the end of the hall. This is where they decided to attempt a rescue due to their proximity to the victim. These were the ONLY two personnel to enter the building without SCBA's. As additional personnel arrived on the scene a search of all apartments was completed in order to account for all occupants of the building. The personnel only encountered a smoke condition in the first floor of the south wing and a light smoke condition on the second floor of the south wing.All personel that entered were wearing the appropriate ppe and scba.
Once the fire was deemed to be out and contained to the oven, and ventilation operations had begun. The process of air monitoring had begun. Some of the personnel on other floors and wings of the building had removed there regulators from the mask to conserve air supplies due to no smoke conditions in other areas of the building. (something that i would like any one of you to tell me you have not done yourself). This is where things got a little out of hand. The personnel monitoring air conditions encountered HCN readings of 1.6 to 1.9 ppm on there meters in the fire room and the corridor directly outside the room ONLY. All other areas of the builing were clear of any readings of HCN or CO. These findings were reported back to command and passed along to the ems officer in charge. The ems officer in charge not being familiar with HCN called there medical control at the hospital for advice. It was determined by the ems personnel that all personel in any part of the building without scbas would be transported as a precaution. Not one of the firefighters that were transported had any complaints or even wanted to go but because a Doctor had gotten involved there was some concern as far as liability so it was agreed that they would go.
Some additional facts:
1) Before you attack the Chief for anything, you should know that he is known and respected around the country for being a leader in the fire service and most importantly he was out of the state for a funeral at the time of the incident and did not arrive on scene until at least an hour into it.

2) The first arriving officers are well aware to the fact that they should have had scbas on as they are very well trained and have dozens of years of experience. Unfortunately complacency had set in due to the amount of alarms received at this facility in the past.

3) The department has just in the past 3 months or so adopted an HCN guideline and all personnel are not totally up to date on the entire protocol. As the department is all volunteer.There have already been changes and ammendments made to address some of the issues that were encountered that day.

I do not have a problem with anyone having an opinion but for people to make accusations or attacks on people without any knowledge of the truth or real facts is disappointing to see. For a group of people who consider themseves a brotherhood i am not too impressed with my "brothers". I wish i had nothing better to do than comment on everyone else mistakes and hide behind a keyboard and a fake screen name. If I could ask one thing from anyone in this case it would be please dont rush to judgement on the basis of somebody's hearsay or misinformed opinion.

How many dept.'s even check for HCN? It's in the air long after your four gas meter showes the atmosphere is clear to remove your mask.

response to haligan7,

Your specific observations regarding HCN are correct, firefighters are not typically in a position to field evaluate the properties of a given atmosphere. Which is why respiratory protection is a donned prophylactically as a matter of due diligence.

Fact is firefighters entered a building with a known and visible smoke condition with respiratory protection. Anyway you slice it the safety of firefighters was imperiled.

Apparently this Chief is unaware, unwilling, or unable to oversee the safety of his firefighters. Join the ranks of another famous Chief, Rusty Thomas of Charleston and resign. Theres simply no room for incompetency in the fire service.

Time to death following hydrogen cyanide inhalation in humans

Dose

Dose 150 ppm time till death 30 min

Dose 180 ppm time till death 10 min

Dose 270 ppm time till death immediate

After a single brief exposure to a low dose concentration of HCN from which an individual recovers quickly, no long term health affects are anticipated.

HCN is not considered to have carcinogenic or mutagenic properties. It is not a reproductive toxin (thank goodness for me!!!)

The limits you suggest for both the OSHA and NIOSH numbers seem to be for an 8 hour time period. Since your department seems to be on the forefront of this issue in the States, I'd love to know what you do with an exposure rate of 10ppm at the pump panel? Are you saying that it is acceptable to operate because you are outside of 4.7 ppm average for an 8 hour exposure? This is a great article for Fire Engineering. I remember they had some articles about the French and their efforts to have antidote kits as part of their response to a structure fire.

Thanks for your thoughts.

I am sure everyone here can tell me the physical properties and exposure limits of the colorless and odoerless gas CO (Carbon Monoxide). After all... we have been dealing with it for what, 20 years or more?

But, does anyone running their mouth here really understand HCN (Hydrogen Cyanide) and it's physical properties or exposure limits?

Do you know the NIOSH or OSHA TWA or the IDLH of either?

How about the signs and symptoms of exposure to either one?

How about the treatment for either one, anybody know that?

I am willing to lay money on it that everyone of you that have passed judgement here without all the facts has in the past (and will again in the future) conducted firefighting operations of one sort or another (Structure, Vehicle, Dumpster, Wildland) while operating in light passive smoke conditions without SCBA in operation.

During recent training fires (structures, only wood and straw as fuel) I found HCN levels outside in crew staging areas 30-40 feet from the structure as high as 55ppm and at the pump panel, a distance of 60-70 feet from the structure as high as 10ppm.

Our department has supported my efforts to learn as much about this HCN issue as we can. For example, we have purchased single gas air monitors for each front line engine company to use during and after firefighting operations while conducting overhaul and investigations. SCBA goes into use if there is smoke of any kind and stays in use until the CO is below 35ppm and the HCN is below 4.7ppm.

There are alot of tough words in here from guys and or gals hiding behind screen names at their desktop!

Where there mistakes made at this incident? YES! But instead of pointing fingers like you cowards are doing, we should be learning from the mistakes. I have only seen one or two really intelligent comments in this entire thread and that embarrasses me more then what this department is alleged to have done. And to make matters worse, you are forming your comments from comments made by the news media and they are experts in absolutely nothing! Look at the camera footage and listen to or read the reports... not even the same fire!

Pathetic!

firefighter 1 anybody

I'm a little confused still, and I realize that I don't have all the facts. There does seem to be some mass hysteria here, but why were 20 Firefighters were transported and of the elderly residents (of which I assume there were more than 20), only 8 were transported?

I understand the issue of light/non-visible smoke, but a sweet girl I went to high school with, lost her life (along with her husband and two small children) in Aspen a few weeks before Christmas. The gas that killed them was odorless and invisible. I would argue that being dressed for success might be in your long term best interests. Do condoms work if you put them on halfway or after the fact? If you consume air to rapidly then workout and decrease your rate of consumption.

And although it has been a long time since I rode the box, I think the advice of treat the patient no the monitor would have eliminated some of the hysteria here.

Dal90, I actually see the point you are trying to make. Like so many criticisms of cover photos, people can jump to conclusions without the whole picture. Maybe it was overreaction to a meter reading. I don't know, I wasn't there. I agree with your analogies to the hazmat, CO, and anthrax "fads" when they hit. Knowing the whole story is critical to reaching a cool headed and informed conclusion......HOWEVER...You blew it when you started to justify the lack of SCBA/PPE based on the size of the radio in the oven. I won't question your experience BUT...anyone in our business for awhile has been to food on the stove with smoke showing out 2 windows and it was 2 hotdogs. Likewise, I've been to similiar calls with barely a whisp of smoke but a burnt teflon pan that would choke out the hardest iron lunger. One fatal fire took the life of a woman from a smoldering foam couch. An old timer once told me there were enough toxins to kill you in a telephone if it burned. So downplaying the size of a burning piece of equipment as justification for no SCBA doesn't cut it. You sound like you have a logical and legal mindset. Kind of like me. But you finished off grasping for straws defending some actions which do, on the face of it, contradict current training and tactical protocols. So follow some of your own suggestions. Don't comment too much EITHER WAY until you have the whole picture. Stay safe.

It's always the same! Rules and standards are only for someone else! We're better than the other "guys" our "job" is more important! ect., ect., ect.!

IS THIS CHIEF FROM FLINT, MI ?

"But what was stupid here?

I really get the feeling we’re missing some critical piece of information."

Dal90,
What's stupid is, FF's not using full PPE including SCBA until it is determined the air quailty is at a level we no longer need respiratory protection. No I wasn't there, but
the article above stated, "It really wasn’t much of a fire, but it generated a lot of thick, black smoke". Well it sounds like full PPE, including SCBA was what the situation called for.

Additionally, it appeared some of the elderly residents needed assistance vacating the building.

What if several of these FF's not wearing SCBA were escorting residents to safety, and conditions deterierated, their ride from the scene might not have been in an ambulance. If this sounds dramatic, read the LODD and injury reports many brothers have not come home form lack of proper PPE

Be Safe!!!!!!!!

Ok WTF! Dal90 and N/A your additude is why we kill over a 100 firefighters every year. there is no excuse, there was a fire and there was smoke. we spend alot of money on meters to test, and we need to use them with SCBA on and do not come off untill levels are safe. no excuse..... If you don't want to use PPE than find a desk job we don't want you. Firefighters (SMART ONES) use PPE until it is safe to remove it. Go home and ask your kids or your wife if its ok for you to not use your PPE. I bet they will tell you NO! You and any of your Fellow idiots that think you are above the use of PPE and anything else that is put in place to keep us safe make me sick. go find a desk job.

As a municipal FF for 28 years and a USAF FF for 4 years, I've seen quite a few WTF's in my time. This one is right in the top. I see several FF's say that a FF should step off the Apparatus geared up and SCBA on. This is OK if it is done before departing the station or enroute IF that seatbelt STAYS ON. If FF's are unbelting to don gear that is a bigger WTF than this case. Seatbelts go on and stay on until arrival. If gear donning has to wait until arrival than so be it. IF it can be done enroute with seatbelts ON than that's cool and my compliments to the Department for forward thinking.

>It is called GROSS NEGLIGENCE!

Cliff, what's the gross negligence?

Where you there to know it was a *confirmed* smoke or fire condition as you just stated? Better be specific with your words when you start throwing around legal terms.

Was there a smoke condition showing on the outside or even inside? I can't imagine a radio in an oven makes much smoke to show from a large structure in winter time when windows are closed. I can't imagine you would even see the smoke until you're in the hallway -- and only if the door to the apartment was open.

And even at that point if you have an airpack on your back I can't imagine it's creating enough smoke that you're thinking about putting on a mask as your escorting elderly people through that same hallway who don't have the benefit of a mask.

Hey, I'm one to question how often we still see firefighters going at it on car fires / trash fires / overhaul without being on air.

But is our training and experience so piss poor today that we have a whole peanut gallery thinking the guys should have been on air from the moment they entered the building? Or been on air while escorting elderly walking out the same hallways they're in? When told that the guys who went to the hospital had no cyanide in their blood still believe those guys acted unreasonably or their officers failed to use even the slightest amount of care? Without being there every...single...thing about this story points to not a lack of judgement by the firefighters on the fire operations side but instead of some problem with cyanide exposure SOPs and/or metering protocols.

In response to #18 WTF! I guess you think it is ok if 4 or 5 guys did not have SCBA's on? Well what was it? 4 or 5 or 15 or 20? If that department is so poorly run that 4 or 5 firefighters would enter a building where a confirmed smoke/fire condition exists without their SCBA's the Chief and the Officers on the scene should be handing in their resignations immediately! It is called GROSS NEGLIGENCE! There are no excuses, or reasons why this happened other than OMG IDIOTS!

ok... i was on scene about 10 minutes after this happened and i know how it seems like omg 20 firefighters not wearing their scbas... thats not how it was... there a few firefighters that did not have there scbas on maybe 4-5 guys the rest were completely dresses they made every firefighter that went into the building go to the hospital because of the high cyonide...so pretty much all of the guys that were transported were done because for precautions

>We can’t save a life if our life has to be saved
>because of stupidity.

But what was stupid here?

I really get the feeling we're missing some critical piece of information.

We know there wasn't much smoke. That's clear from the clean walls and that the building was re-occupied within hours.

We know no firefighter, or other occupant, actually had a cyanide exposure per blood tests -- what they had been treated for.

Those three points are substantial evidence the firefighters didn't act unreasonably or stupidly.

What I would love to know right now is how was the cyanide levels that triggered this reaction determined -- was it a single meter? Was that meter properly used and calibrated?

It is difficult to understand that in 2009 there are still firefighters, career and volunteer, who still think that proper levels of PPE are for the other guy. As a fire instructor I try to instill, in as many ways possible, FF Safety. That a FF's #1 exposure is himself/herself. our primary responsibility is life safety begining with our own. We can't save a life if our life has to be saved because of stupidity.

FF safety is everyones business.

Every FF, from the chief to the entry level "grunt" needs to live and breath this concept.

So when do you mask up?

This fire does raise a lot of red flags in my mind -- that you had 30 FFs transported for "smoke inhalation"

WHEN THE BUILDING WAS REOCCUPIED BY THE ELDERLY THAT EVENING.

Yes, there was smoke.

No, it wasn't heavy.

Do you see smoke stains on the hallway? Do you see smoke stains on the door jamb of the fire apartment -- the single apartment that was ruled uninhabitable? Did you read the reports (not sure if geezer posted one) that the building was sprinklered but no sprinklers activated? Did you pickup on the fact that of every person transported not a single person actually had cyanide present in their blood samples?

When do you go on air with large buildings with light smoke conditions? Do you go on air when you enter the front door -- so that by the time you're near the fire you have less air supply left for operations or God forbid if you become entrapped? There is training in the magazines that do say you don't mask up until it's appropriate to do so.

There are many good reasons to come off the truck with your airpack on your back and ready to don the mask if conditions are encountered that warrant it.

But we're not even talking about a car fire or dumpster fire here -- we're talking about smoke from a radio the stove, and maybe (reading some of the reports) some of the adjacent cupboards. But not a lot, and what there was was diffused in a large area.

I think a lot of the above posters have done is completely missed the right questions to ask -- they didn't apply their experience looking at the pictures and the reports that the building lacked smoke stains and was quickly reoccupied to understand this was a very small amount of smoke overall.

Rather then a situation where 30 FFs were exposed to cyanide due to lack of wearing SCBA, this was a situation were it **sounds to me** like the fairly new cyanide exposure protocols in Rhode Island were misapplied and/or need to be adjusted. This isn't new -- we saw similiar over reactions back 20 years ago when Haz-Mat was new; or similiar over reactions more recently with "unknown white powder" scares. Sometimes it takes time to work the kinks out of new policies.

As to Hope Valley themselves, I'm only peripherally familiar with them. They don't have a bad reputation, and while their Chief has had an extremely long tenure (since the mid 1960s) it's a department that's always kept up with the times without complaining about change. I do know they had one of the earlies haz-mat units dating back to the mid-80s when it was the newest buzzword; and today their volunteer Deputy Chiefs are appointed by a process of ranking by resume, written exam, and outside oral board scores.

“… not all those firefighters had on the proper breathing gear because their first concern was to get in and save those residents.”

Brilliant.

In this day and age of technology and safety, this has to be one of the most absurd comments from any fire service professional (I use the term loosely...)

Pick up a text book, a CDC or NIOSH Report, a fire-related magazine and get some education, folks. You are putting yourselves in an early grave.

Chief, I sincerely hope you were mis-quoted. If not, Leadership starts at the example at the top. You have some work to do, or your replacement does.

In the 60s we rode tail boards and had very few SCBA, my dad and uncle were firefighters in the 50s 60s and 70s both died of the same kind of cancer. In the 60s and 70' we started getting jump seats. I encountered arguments from our compensation board and other firefighters about mounting SCBA in the jump seats. Evidently the weight of the pack would cause a tripping or slipping problem when exiting the vehicle. OMG then we have to go in and wear this thing in zero visibility in a structure to fight a fire we might slip. However common sense has finally prevailed, and firefighters riding in cabs and arriving on scene with full gear and SCBA is now SOP, for most departments.

Ok, no face piece on...smoke inhalation...you owe us for EMS expenses and lost time. Oh, and by the way...here are your departmental charges. Maybe someone will get the message now?!

Like going to a water rescue with out a life jacket and rope. Become a second, or third, or forth... victim. Better safe then sorry.

Next time my Fire Department gets a call to the elderly housing complex,I'll just hussle off the rig and get the residents out,without my SCBA on,(think NOT).It don't take long to put on the the SCBA while responding.


The days of the "Iron Lung Firefighter" is way over.

Why shouldn't they rush in to save the residents? They are supposed to. That is there job.
That breathing apparatus thing is alot about nothing, waste of time!

As long as you assume the following:

A disregard for your personal safety.
A disregard for the saftey of the victims.
A disregard for the firefighters you work with.
An inate ability to ignore common sense.
Real FF's just get the job done regadless of the situation.
Cancer is readily cured.


The fish rots at the head, and the buck stops with the Chief of department, and the "officers" (using that term loosely) on scene. Next time they should just use mutual aid for their own safety. Maybe a professional department...?

Smarten up and stop making the fire service look bad, were already full up.

I feel like a ghoul slowing down to look at a horrible wreck on the highway. They transported the equivalent of the staffing of an entire 1st alarm, because no one had time to mask up.

Granted I don't know what the construction laws are in Rhode Island, but that building looked pretty new, and I assume it has doors on the rooms and sprinklers. Did 20 firefighters really need to rush in without their gear? If I click on the NIOSH page for firefighter injuries and fatalities, does it now redirect to this department's website?

Gentlemen, your families love you. Do your job so that we all go home at the end of the shift.

Comment #2

Dateline 2024-
Hopkinton, Rhode Island- CDC investigating numerous cases of lung cancer in former and current firefighters......

Shakes head....I hope that this chief was just putting a positive spin on the situation for the public and then going back to his station and kicking the onscene officers and firefighters for being stupid...

"I saw guys coming out with black stuff all over their face and I was most concerned about them..."

Carlos Mencia says it best- "You're the dee-dee-dee"

Good point who needs all that bulky equipment?
The next Ice rescue I go on, I will set that silly thermal suit aside, because I AM SUPERMAN!

I wonder how many bothered to don bunker gear? Not sure how far back in the woods this department is, but someone may want to stop by the station and drop off a few back copies of Firehouse or Fire Engineering to bring the training staff up to speed. Something from the 70's or 80's should be recent enough to let them know that this kind of stunt gives the rest of the service a bad name. To say that the Fire Chief’s comprehension of Operational Risk Management is abysmal, leaves no suitable term to describe his application of it.

Chief please tell us you were misquoted.

Well I guess we still haven't learned our lesson in 2009!! Let's make these guys sit in the corner until they learn their lesson!!!

Stay Safe and Stay Low!!

"… not all those firefighters had on the proper breathing gear because their first concern was to get in and save those residents."

Oh good. And all this time I've been hopping off the rig with my SCBA and carrying a hook or other tools, when I simply should've left them on the rig and ran inside without my PPE. Way to go, "Chief"!