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3 Alarms = 8 Firefighters (How's that again?)

8 comments

THE EAST LIVERPOOL, OHIO, CITY COUNCIL held its weekly meeting Monday night and heard a variety of tales about a recent house fire.

A resident who was addressing the council was telling about a fire at his home the previous week that started in his garage and caused considerable damage to his house and also his neighbor’s.  His first complaint was that only 2 firefighters showed up to the fire.  Later that evening a fire dept. spokesman said that there were actually three.  (Firegeezer suspects that he was including an officer who responded individually.  The city operates four fire stations with TWO firefighters on duty in each one.  The FD has been paid-only since 1896.)

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Engine 1 (quint)

But when help was found to be needed, the FD called a “2nd alarm” and then another 10 minutes later the “3rd alarm” was called bringing the total of firefighters on the scene to 8.

Apparently there is an underlying controversy going on in the town about the need to hire more FF’s or start supplementing the existing force with volunteers.  There is a fire tax levy question on next month’s ballot.  One of the councilmenBrian Kerr, stated that,  “There is no way a volunteer fire department would work in East Liverpool.  The town would burn to the ground.”

Fire Chief Gerald Barcus is trying to get the council to add firefighters to the roster.  The Review reports:

If a volunteer had to leave home, go to the station, wait for a sufficient number of fellow firefighters and then respond to a fire, the delay would be costly, according to the chief.

“Do you think it would be one building (that burned)?” Barcus asked council. “No. It would be a whole city block,” he answered.

It’s getting hot in East Liverpool.  This will be an interesting debate to follow.  Read the entire article in the East Liverpool Review HERE.

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East Liverpool Fire Department WEBSITE.

Posted by on October 7, 2008 • Filed under: Fire-ology
  • Lt. Tom

    It should be obvious that a career department with on-duty Firefighters will have a quicker response than a volunteer Department. However, it should also be obvious that the thousands of Volunteer departments around the country do a fair to good job of protecting their communities without allowing ‘an entire block to burn down’ before they arrive on scene. To point out that this is insulting seems minimal. This Chief showed his ignorance, prejudice, and incompetence all in one sentence. “Tis better to be of as a fool than to open your mouth and prove it” seems to fit here.
    No doubt combination departments are tough to operate, it takes a special balance, good attitude and cooperation between paid staff and volunteers, etc. I think this “Chief” knows he is not capable of managing such an operation. Heck, he obviously doesn’t even know how to manage a Fire Scene. He also does not give a damn about the safety and security of his paid staff by turning down the possibility of free support staff to help them get the job done. He’d rather protect his job and let his people get hurt before he would accept any help. He is not a fool, he is a damn fool and an embarrassment to his City and his Department.
    Where is Billy Goldfedder when you need him? Send him down to straighten this guy out.
    You may, However, have a different Opinion,
    Tom

  • Lt. Tom

    It should be obvious that a career department with on-duty Firefighters will have a quicker response than a volunteer Department. However, it should also be obvious that the thousands of Volunteer departments around the country do a fair to good job of protecting their communities without allowing ‘an entire block to burn down’ before they arrive on scene. To point out that this is insulting seems minimal. This Chief showed his ignorance, prejudice, and incompetence all in one sentence. “Tis better to be of as a fool than to open your mouth and prove it” seems to fit here.
    No doubt combination departments are tough to operate, it takes a special balance, good attitude and cooperation between paid staff and volunteers, etc. I think this “Chief” knows he is not capable of managing such an operation. Heck, he obviously doesn’t even know how to manage a Fire Scene. He also does not give a damn about the safety and security of his paid staff by turning down the possibility of free support staff to help them get the job done. He’d rather protect his job and let his people get hurt before he would accept any help. He is not a fool, he is a damn fool and an embarrassment to his City and his Department.
    Where is Billy Goldfedder when you need him? Send him down to straighten this guy out.
    You may, However, have a different Opinion,
    Tom

  • Darren

    I still struggle to understand how a department can be that understaffed, this is where I think our state based model works so well over here.

    We have a State based model that says, all pumps and rescues MUST be staffed with 4 and all specials must be staffed with 2. If you don’t have it you recall until those spots are filled, no ifs or buts.

    It just amamzed me when I was over there at the severe lack of staffing.

    Is it time the US Fire departments looked at a state based model ? I know there is probably to much history to prevent that happening. But it just seems a crazy system to me, 1 department has 2 people on a truck. Then there is another nearby department that rides with 6 on a truck ?

    Something has got to give. I hope its before people really suffer!

  • Darren

    I still struggle to understand how a department can be that understaffed, this is where I think our state based model works so well over here.

    We have a State based model that says, all pumps and rescues MUST be staffed with 4 and all specials must be staffed with 2. If you don’t have it you recall until those spots are filled, no ifs or buts.

    It just amamzed me when I was over there at the severe lack of staffing.

    Is it time the US Fire departments looked at a state based model ? I know there is probably to much history to prevent that happening. But it just seems a crazy system to me, 1 department has 2 people on a truck. Then there is another nearby department that rides with 6 on a truck ?

    Something has got to give. I hope its before people really suffer!

  • MN Chief

    What about automatic aid and/or mutual aid? We’re a small (8 on shift) career department but we augment our response with automatic aid agreements with all of our surrounding communities. It’s a two-way agreement and the members run the gamut from career to combination to fully paid-on-call. It’s a system that works well us and allows us to meet NFPA 1710 requirements. To be honest, there is no way a community of our size could staff appropriately to meet 1710 without automatic aid.

  • MN Chief

    What about automatic aid and/or mutual aid? We’re a small (8 on shift) career department but we augment our response with automatic aid agreements with all of our surrounding communities. It’s a two-way agreement and the members run the gamut from career to combination to fully paid-on-call. It’s a system that works well us and allows us to meet NFPA 1710 requirements. To be honest, there is no way a community of our size could staff appropriately to meet 1710 without automatic aid.

  • Dal90

    >This Chief showed his ignorance, prejudice, and
    >incompetence all in one sentence

    Not necessarily.

    I could simply be fear, and doing the best job he can in advocating the most reasonable position he can.

    We don’t have enough information from the article to know what is going on, but I have seen enough departments in similiar circumstances to make some educated guesses.

    Let’s step back and first consider they have 4 fire stations, staffed with 2 firefighters a piece. A quick google says they cover 4.3 square miles with a population of 13,000.

    Why haven’t they consolidated to a single station with 8 guys on duty to staff/cross-staff a couple engines and truck as needed?

    Maybe they don’t have the money in town to build a single station that would fit all the apparatus and firefighters. Maybe they are that tradition bound that they just don’t want to do it. Or maybe they’re just afraid it would make it easier for the City to cut back on the paid staffing even more, and they’ll end up with one station with three guys on duty, instead of having four stations and eight guys on duty they have now.

    Mistrust often runs deep in these situations, and answers are given or exagerated out of fear. It is an unfortunate reality.

  • Dal90

    >This Chief showed his ignorance, prejudice, and
    >incompetence all in one sentence

    Not necessarily.

    I could simply be fear, and doing the best job he can in advocating the most reasonable position he can.

    We don’t have enough information from the article to know what is going on, but I have seen enough departments in similiar circumstances to make some educated guesses.

    Let’s step back and first consider they have 4 fire stations, staffed with 2 firefighters a piece. A quick google says they cover 4.3 square miles with a population of 13,000.

    Why haven’t they consolidated to a single station with 8 guys on duty to staff/cross-staff a couple engines and truck as needed?

    Maybe they don’t have the money in town to build a single station that would fit all the apparatus and firefighters. Maybe they are that tradition bound that they just don’t want to do it. Or maybe they’re just afraid it would make it easier for the City to cut back on the paid staffing even more, and they’ll end up with one station with three guys on duty, instead of having four stations and eight guys on duty they have now.

    Mistrust often runs deep in these situations, and answers are given or exagerated out of fear. It is an unfortunate reality.