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How To Buy A Used Fire Truck

5 comments

LightRock’s Lessons: 

Not too long ago, the Geezer reported HERE on a North Carolina volley department that had apparently been the victim of a rip-off by a used fire apparatus “dealer” called Firehouse 66. As was pointed out, this company’s website makes some…how shall I say it…interesting claims. The one I like best is that they have “over 100 full-time employees” working for them. I’m sure… In looking at the site, I also noticed that the “face” of Firehouse 66 is identified as a “purchasing manager”, which I thought was a pretty interesting way of describing him.

What I’d like to do in this and subsequent columns is give everyone an overview and some perspective of the used fire apparatus business. Let’s get two things out on the table up front:

1.  As is the case with any business transaction, remember: If a deal seems too good to be true, it probably is too good to be true. There is a market for used fire apparatus and, as is the case in any market, the laws of supply and demand, as well as other business basics apply.2.  While the internet is a great thing, it is also a great place for some people with ethical problems to hide. It can also make a company “look” a lot bigger and better than it really is. Remember, the internet is a largely unregulated medium, so there is no central authority that investigates inflated claims or outright lies.So, you want to buy (or sell) a used fire truck. No problem. There are a variety of ways to do so and there are many companies in the marketplace to help you.

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A very attractive and relatively low risk way to maneuver through the used fire apparatus market is to look for a truck through one of the listing services. Fire departments (or others) with used fire apparatus to sell list it with a company and, for an agreed upon fee, the listing company then markets the used truck to potential buyers via the internet. In addition to posting key information and pricing about the used vehicle, the listing company also acts as a facilitator between the seller and potential buyers. They further add value by using their market knowledge in helping both buyers and sellers find the right fit at the right price. One such firm is Firetec. They can be found HERE. One important thing to keep in mind is that with this type of company, the actual sale/purchase transaction takes place between the seller and buyer.

Beyond the listing services are used fire truck brokers. These companies typically buy and then resell used fire apparatus. As such, there are at least 2 transactions that take place. First, the broker purchases the used truck from the seller and then ultimately, resells it to a purchaser. In between, the broker advertises the unit, possibly makes some repairs and/or upgrades before resale. Some of these brokers may also take a used truck on consignment. What does this mean? A seller gives the broker physical possession of the apparatus so that he can sell it. However, until the broker actually sells the apparatus, ownership is retained by the seller. Dealing with brokers can present some risks to both buyers and sellers. If you are the fire department selling your apparatus to a broker, it can be a fairly straightforward process. The broker makes an offer and, after a little back and forth, you ultimately agree on a selling price. The broker then provides you with a check. You give the broker title and the old rig goes away. One word of caution: Insist on a certified check or electronic funds transfer (EFT) before handing over the rig and the title.

Buyers can also face a risk in that, not unlike what can sometimes happen in say used cars, the broker could perhaps do a little “doctoring up” to mask over some of the signs of age or wear and tear, making the used vehicle appear better than it is. One example: Many older units have steel water tanks. A steel tank that is about done could be patched to make sure it holds water at the time of sale, but would then potentially become an issue shortly thereafter.

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Chantal Dubuc photo

The area of consignment is where risks to both the buyer and seller can escalate and, unless I’m missing my guess, the North Carolina situation is probably an excellent example. In this case, the buyer of the used truck paid for the apparatus and physically took possession of it, however, they were unable to put it into service because they couldn’t get a title in order to properly register and license their “new” rig. Why, you might ask, can’t they? Simple: Because the selling department still has it…and they are going to keep it…until the broker gives them a check. This is their only leverage. You might ask, “Why doesn’t the broker give the seller a check? He’s gotten one from the buyer.” The answer is simple: The broker has likely used the check obtained from the buyer for some other purpose, rather than to pay the seller, keeping only his agreed upon percentage for selling the truck.

It is all about the vexing issue of cash flow. Cash flow can be an issue for any business, large or small. It can become an even bigger issue if you are an ethically challenged business person.

More on that and some other information about the used fire apparatus market in our next installment…

Posted by on November 15, 2007 • Filed under: commentary
  • http://www.vafirenews.com/ Rhett Fleitz

    Great article. I enjoyed it enough to comment. That should say enough.

    I think you hit the nail on the head.

  • http://www.vafirenews.com Rhett Fleitz

    Great article. I enjoyed it enough to comment. That should say enough.

    I think you hit the nail on the head.

  • Dale

    Some good advice here. As someone who is also in the emergency vehicle industry, here are a couple more tips to understand.

    1) Beware of a “certified” check. Talk to your local bank about the meaning of this term. We have seen checks stamped “certified” that were worthless. It’s better to accept a cashier’s check.

    2) In many states, fire departments are not required to “title” or “register” their vehicle so the original MSO (manufacturer’s statement of origin), basically the birth certificate on the chassis AND Body (there should be one of each on a new vehicle)may get put away in a file cabinet in someone’s office and forgotten. When buying “used” emergency vehicles, insist on a valid “title” from the original state where it was last “owned” unless the firm you are buying it from has already titled it in their name and is transferring title to you at the time of sale. Otherwise, you may end up with problems trying to prove legal ownership and getting that vehicle titled.

    3) Ensure you get a “chassis” title, especially with commerical chassis vehicles. There are cases where agencies are sold a vehicle and all they receive is a “new” MSO from the vendor describing the total vehicle. These are typically considered as a “second stage” or final stage MSO that is typically created by some builders (usually ambulance and rescue vendors) to account for the body attached to the chassis since the bodies may eventually be transferred to a new chassis. While some states are very particular and will accept a second stage MSO, you may be in for some ugly surprises at the DMV if you don’t have a valid vehicle title.

    4) Whenever possible, ask for the original owners manuals and data books that should have been provided when the vehicle was originally built. Of course, some departments may not provide them with the vehicle or they may be misplaced or lost, especially if the vehicle has been through more than one owner. They will be of great value in training, service, and parts availability.

    5) If you go and inspect the vehicle offered for sale prior to purchasing it, make sure to clearly understand what is going to be provided with the vehicle in terms of installed items (i.e. siren, bell, suction hose, ladders) preferably in writing and take photos of the rigs, all features, pump panel, compartments, and any equipment. Also take photos of the data panels that show serial numbers of the vehicle offered for sale. This will minimize potential problems with “switching” of vehicles at a later date or missing items from a rig when you go to retrieve your new purchase.

  • Dale

    Some good advice here. As someone who is also in the emergency vehicle industry, here are a couple more tips to understand.

    1) Beware of a “certified” check. Talk to your local bank about the meaning of this term. We have seen checks stamped “certified” that were worthless. It’s better to accept a cashier’s check.

    2) In many states, fire departments are not required to “title” or “register” their vehicle so the original MSO (manufacturer’s statement of origin), basically the birth certificate on the chassis AND Body (there should be one of each on a new vehicle)may get put away in a file cabinet in someone’s office and forgotten. When buying “used” emergency vehicles, insist on a valid “title” from the original state where it was last “owned” unless the firm you are buying it from has already titled it in their name and is transferring title to you at the time of sale. Otherwise, you may end up with problems trying to prove legal ownership and getting that vehicle titled.

    3) Ensure you get a “chassis” title, especially with commerical chassis vehicles. There are cases where agencies are sold a vehicle and all they receive is a “new” MSO from the vendor describing the total vehicle. These are typically considered as a “second stage” or final stage MSO that is typically created by some builders (usually ambulance and rescue vendors) to account for the body attached to the chassis since the bodies may eventually be transferred to a new chassis. While some states are very particular and will accept a second stage MSO, you may be in for some ugly surprises at the DMV if you don’t have a valid vehicle title.

    4) Whenever possible, ask for the original owners manuals and data books that should have been provided when the vehicle was originally built. Of course, some departments may not provide them with the vehicle or they may be misplaced or lost, especially if the vehicle has been through more than one owner. They will be of great value in training, service, and parts availability.

    5) If you go and inspect the vehicle offered for sale prior to purchasing it, make sure to clearly understand what is going to be provided with the vehicle in terms of installed items (i.e. siren, bell, suction hose, ladders) preferably in writing and take photos of the rigs, all features, pump panel, compartments, and any equipment. Also take photos of the data panels that show serial numbers of the vehicle offered for sale. This will minimize potential problems with “switching” of vehicles at a later date or missing items from a rig when you go to retrieve your new purchase.

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